Internal Dialogues: Protagonists who find themselves on the same side of a debate lock horns over the most pressing internal issues that divide them.

"As government expands, liberty contracts," said Ronald Reagan. And the right has for decades been associated with keeping government as small as possible. But it is unclear whether a small state is compatible with goals widely held by others on the right. The famed 19th-century Tory Prime Minister Disraeli laid the ground for a state that sought to provide education, alleviate poverty, and safeguard workers. Principles that most on the right still endorse. And figures like Trump and Le Pen want the state to intervene to control immigration and revive local businesses. They certainly don't want all of the state to disappear. A far cry from the libertarian calls of Ayn Rand, or the anarcho-capitalist stance of Argentine premier Milei: "The state is a criminal organization."

Does the right need a powerful state to deliver its goals? Or should the eradication of the state be its primary aim? Or is the deeper issue here that these conflicting approaches should not both be seen as right-wing and we need different categories to reflect radically different political outlooks?

Deputy Leader of the Reform Party Richard Tice, founder of Prospect magazine David Goodhart and journalist Sherelle Jacobs debate the relationship between the political Right and the state.